At last week’s WebmasterWorld Pubcon conference in Boston, I had the opportunity to talk to Matt Cutts from Google a few times and when I posted my recollection of comments about Google and user or toolbar data for rankings he wanted to clarify. That presented an opportunity for a mini interview about Google’s position on toolbar data.
I started out by posing a few specific questions:
1. Does Google currently use toolbar data for rankings?
2. What do you see as the pros and cons of using such data for rankings?
3. Can you describe any scenario where information from a downloaded application from Google might be used in some way for ranking web pages?
4. If Google does not employ toolbar or other user data for rankings and another search engine does, could that provide the other search engine an advantage?
And Matt provided this reply:
Hey Lee, it was nice to meet you in person at Pubcon! I’ll answer this all in one chunk, if that’s okay. Personally, I think this issue is on SEO’s minds more because there was a speculative thread at
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum30/33769.htm where WMW folks discussed toolbar data.
I read the story at SearchNewz and saw your conclusion from our conversation that “Google does not use toolbar data for rankings” and wanted to clarify that answer a little bit. In general, when someone asks me the question “Do you use signal X in rankings?” a good way to answer that question is usually to say that while we don’t comment specifically on most of the factors that we use in ranking, it’s wise not to rule something out absolutely.
Let’s take the example in a different context. Meta tags got a bad rap in the early days of search engines because a few people abused them heavily. As a result Google doesn’t use meta tags much in ranking documents. But I’ve learned not to say “We would never use meta tags” because it’s not wise to preclude using any particular signal; in the future, someone might work out a way to use that signal.
So I’m not going to say definitively that Google doesn’t/won’t use toolbar data (or other signals) in ranking. I think what you were picking up on was my long list of “cons” in data like that.
Regarding cons of using toolbar data, the main reason would be if people were to spoof toolbar data to make a page or domain look more visited than it was. For example, at SES New York, I pointed out that Alexa provides a “Related Links” feature for web sites, and that data had been spammed to show related sites being job sites, poker sites, etc. at (Matt’s blog Alexa URL)
That resonated with me, because it showed that people were thinking about spamming Alexa’s toolbar data. Given the attention that people have given to PageRank, which is in Google’s toolbar, you can see how I’d feel about using toolbar data. I’m not going to say whether Google uses a particular signal in our ranking; I just wanted to communicate some of the potential problems in using things like toolbar data.
Hope that helps,
Matt
Thanks Matt!
I know there a skeptical SEOs out there that won’t buy this. I also know there are many SEOs too busy getting results doing their thing to even notice. All I can say is that every time Google reaches out to clarify, it’s a very good thing for the search engine and search marketing community.
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[...] I only posted a Cuttlett of the info here on SEJ, meatier info on Lee’s Top Rank Blog. [...]
Matt Cutts ?† propos de la Googlebar…
La prise en compte des donn?©es collect?©es par la barre d’outils Google dans l’algorithme du moteur est une question qui fait d?©bat sur le forums consacr?©s au r?©f?©rencement. Interrog?© par Lee Odden ?† propos de l’utilisation de ces donn?©es, M…
[...] Lee Odden has a nice little mini interview with Matt Cutts that descibes how Google deals with things that can be gamed by SEO’s.¬† In this case it is toolbar data, Matt uses meta tags as an example basically saying, Google would be stupid to rely on anything that can be manipulated, any further questions? I don’t know about you, but I¬†learn more from mini interviews¬†or even blog comments from Matt, thanks Lee! google, seo, Toolbar Data Social bookmark this page [...]
[...] Lee Odden of TopRank wrote about his conversations with Matt in which the Google engineer answers queries related to Google's ranking tactics. Lee's queries are as follows- [...]
If Google isnt using some of toolbar data for rankings they probably are taking the slant that if they say they’re using it , Spammers will go mad and make a farse out of it anyways..
Good Post! Great Site..
Cheers
Sparks Flying
There is an interesting entry over at Michael Nguyen’s Social Patterns blog that delves into at least one of the ways in which it appears that Google is using toolbar data…
UI Snippet Links: The “useful information” links that have been popping up within top results.
Hey Corey, There certainly are many applications for toolbar data outside of ranking factors, that’s for sure.
[...] So, what does Google do with toolbar data? [...]
[...] Despite what Matt Cutts would have us believe (or not believe; see he can be a bit ambiguous sometimes), toolbar activity for me still seems to be a valid ranking factor. Regarding cons of using toolbar data, the main reason would be if people were to spoof toolbar data to make a page or domain look more visited than it was. For example, at SES New York, I pointed out that Alexa provides a “Related Links” feature for web sites, and that data had been spammed to show related sites being job sites, poker sites, etc. at (Matt’s blog Alexa URL) [...]
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[...] The major item I want to clarify is about is privacy in communications I have with people in person, via email or IM. In the past year I’ve been able to meet some amazing people at conferences and industry events. What really got me thinking about this was when I blogged some comments from a conversation I had with Matt Cutts at the Boston WebmasterWorld Pubcon conference. In that conversation I had not mentioned to Matt that I might mention his comments in a blog post. He later asked to clarify, which I did via a mini-interview. [...]
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[...] For more insight from Google’s Matt Cutts, read the full post over at Online Marketing Blog. alexa, google, pagerank, toolbar [...]
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