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	<title>Comments on: Lawyers Cost Money But SEO is Free?</title>
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	<description>Grow your business with TopRank Online Marketing tips, articles, &#38; expert information on social media, content marketing &#38; search engine marketing.</description>
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		<title>By: design4um</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-349065</link>
		<dc:creator>design4um</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-349065</guid>
		<description>I think you were completely right. This kind of situation is happening all the time</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you were completely right. This kind of situation is happening all the time</p>
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		<title>By: Saptarshi</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-315113</link>
		<dc:creator>Saptarshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 07:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-315113</guid>
		<description>Even I am fade up of this type of situation and last night I had another one. I have put up the details on my blog ( &lt;a href=&quot;http://seo-kolkata.blogspot.com/2007/12/pay-for-everything-but-seo-is-for-free.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pay for Everything But SEO is for Free?&lt;/a&gt; and also referenced this post so that people have a feel that its the same situation globally :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even I am fade up of this type of situation and last night I had another one. I have put up the details on my blog ( <a href="http://seo-kolkata.blogspot.com/2007/12/pay-for-everything-but-seo-is-for-free.html" rel="nofollow">Pay for Everything But SEO is for Free?</a> and also referenced this post so that people have a feel that its the same situation globally <img src='http://www.toprankblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Scott Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-223908</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 15:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-223908</guid>
		<description>Could it be that kameko is expressing angst byproducts of a PR problem from which SEM/SEO continues to suffer?

Practicing Law has a barrier to entry, it&#039;s called the Bar Exam.  SEM has no such thing. To call yourself a SEM Expert, you only need to be able to type the words. Our industry has done itself a disservice by neglecting this. Publically-recognized standards are non-existent.

We in the industry know that you become a *good* SEM only after years of experience and plenty of hard work - long after amateurs have given up. This skill is worthy of high billable rates, as clients will achieve much higher business performance and avoid lost opportunities.

The trouble is when we call on clients, even with the right skills at hand, sometimes we slip and fall on the snake oil left by others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could it be that kameko is expressing angst byproducts of a PR problem from which SEM/SEO continues to suffer?</p>
<p>Practicing Law has a barrier to entry, it&#8217;s called the Bar Exam.  SEM has no such thing. To call yourself a SEM Expert, you only need to be able to type the words. Our industry has done itself a disservice by neglecting this. Publically-recognized standards are non-existent.</p>
<p>We in the industry know that you become a *good* SEM only after years of experience and plenty of hard work &#8211; long after amateurs have given up. This skill is worthy of high billable rates, as clients will achieve much higher business performance and avoid lost opportunities.</p>
<p>The trouble is when we call on clients, even with the right skills at hand, sometimes we slip and fall on the snake oil left by others.</p>
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		<title>By: Saptarshi</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-222779</link>
		<dc:creator>Saptarshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 06:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-222779</guid>
		<description>Kameko, when a SEO contract is signed the decision making is mostly done by business heads or marketing heads , who are definitely not there i their chairs for charity.. they put in money only where they get ROI. Probably they are smarter than you to choose the correct people who can actually get them their money&#039;s worth.
-Rishi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kameko, when a SEO contract is signed the decision making is mostly done by business heads or marketing heads , who are definitely not there i their chairs for charity.. they put in money only where they get ROI. Probably they are smarter than you to choose the correct people who can actually get them their money&#8217;s worth.<br />
-Rishi</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-222612</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 23:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-222612</guid>
		<description>Yeah, kameko, isn&#039;t it pretty cool that we get paid more than what many lawyers do? Gotta love it. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, kameko, isn&#8217;t it pretty cool that we get paid more than what many lawyers do? Gotta love it. <img src='http://www.toprankblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Lee Odden</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-222606</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Odden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 23:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-222606</guid>
		<description>You should be embarrassed kameko with sweeping generalizations like that. Your logic can easily be applied to any industry but that&#039;s often what people do who don&#039;t bother to take the time to learn or understand the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should be embarrassed kameko with sweeping generalizations like that. Your logic can easily be applied to any industry but that&#8217;s often what people do who don&#8217;t bother to take the time to learn or understand the facts.</p>
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		<title>By: kameko.rouge</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-222593</link>
		<dc:creator>kameko.rouge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-222593</guid>
		<description>This is embarassing. SEO consultants are a complete joke. Your skillset is definitely not worth even a fraction of a lawyer&#039;s time. If all of those clueless businesses with their fancy, gradient-infested &quot;Web 2.0&quot; websites aiming to get decent page rankings and such actually knew what the majority of &quot;seo consultants&quot; really do, they&#039;d be horrified at how they&#039;ve been scammed.

Get a real job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is embarassing. SEO consultants are a complete joke. Your skillset is definitely not worth even a fraction of a lawyer&#8217;s time. If all of those clueless businesses with their fancy, gradient-infested &#8220;Web 2.0&#8243; websites aiming to get decent page rankings and such actually knew what the majority of &#8220;seo consultants&#8221; really do, they&#8217;d be horrified at how they&#8217;ve been scammed.</p>
<p>Get a real job.</p>
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		<title>By: eBuzzMaster &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Still Working on this&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-138002</link>
		<dc:creator>eBuzzMaster &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Still Working on this&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 03:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-138002</guid>
		<description>[...] Oh - and I will be posting some thoughts in response to Lee Odden&#8217;s Lawyers Cost Money but SEO is Free rant. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Oh &#8211; and I will be posting some thoughts in response to Lee Odden&#8217;s Lawyers Cost Money but SEO is Free rant. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rishi</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-75229</link>
		<dc:creator>Rishi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 11:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-75229</guid>
		<description></description>
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		<title>By: Lee Odden</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-69903</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Odden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-69903</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comment Mike. You hit it right on the head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comment Mike. You hit it right on the head.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-69899</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-69899</guid>
		<description>Lee,

I&#039;ve been working with and selling to law firms for over 8 years now. Many successful lawyers, especially from larger law firms, are used to getting what they want, when they want it. No matter how successful, many of these guys are incredibly cheap and don&#039;t want to pay. Of course, there are plenty of lawyers who will pay top dollar when they are referred to consultants. They know your worth, just as they know their own worth. From the conversation you described, I can almost guarantee he had no intention of spending any money with you. Especially when his selling point to you was &quot;there</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lee,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been working with and selling to law firms for over 8 years now. Many successful lawyers, especially from larger law firms, are used to getting what they want, when they want it. No matter how successful, many of these guys are incredibly cheap and don&#8217;t want to pay. Of course, there are plenty of lawyers who will pay top dollar when they are referred to consultants. They know your worth, just as they know their own worth. From the conversation you described, I can almost guarantee he had no intention of spending any money with you. Especially when his selling point to you was &#8220;there</p>
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		<title>By: Toby</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-67647</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-67647</guid>
		<description>Find it all too often, especially during a pitch, you try to outline deliverables to the client without giving away clever SEO trade secrets.  They want to hear all about your deliverables in detail, but why won&#039;t they just take the suggestions to their webmaster and fix the problem without hiring you.  Many SEO fixes are quick to action, but clients don&#039;t understand the months of research and trial and error that allowed you to learn these tricks of the trade.

I was a full time musician prior to being an SEO consultant, and it happened there as well.  &quot;Come play my club for free, it&#039;ll give you good exposure&quot; and then the club takes all your earnings (not to mention bar tabs) from your fans that wouldn&#039;t be in there if you weren&#039;t playing.  After living with this for years i&#039;ve finally come to the conclusion, &quot;no more freebees&quot;.

I think you made the right decision to not join him in this consultation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Find it all too often, especially during a pitch, you try to outline deliverables to the client without giving away clever SEO trade secrets.  They want to hear all about your deliverables in detail, but why won&#8217;t they just take the suggestions to their webmaster and fix the problem without hiring you.  Many SEO fixes are quick to action, but clients don&#8217;t understand the months of research and trial and error that allowed you to learn these tricks of the trade.</p>
<p>I was a full time musician prior to being an SEO consultant, and it happened there as well.  &#8220;Come play my club for free, it&#8217;ll give you good exposure&#8221; and then the club takes all your earnings (not to mention bar tabs) from your fans that wouldn&#8217;t be in there if you weren&#8217;t playing.  After living with this for years i&#8217;ve finally come to the conclusion, &#8220;no more freebees&#8221;.</p>
<p>I think you made the right decision to not join him in this consultation!</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Odden</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65387</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Odden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65387</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification John.  What you&#039;re suggesting makes sense and I agree. 

Something I didn&#039;t mention in the post was that this Attorney wanted information about how companies are using competitor brands in PPC campaigns as well as mechanics about Google AdWords.  This would be fairly easy to explain on the phone but he wanted to meet in person.  It just wasn&#039;t a worthwhile situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification John.  What you&#8217;re suggesting makes sense and I agree. </p>
<p>Something I didn&#8217;t mention in the post was that this Attorney wanted information about how companies are using competitor brands in PPC campaigns as well as mechanics about Google AdWords.  This would be fairly easy to explain on the phone but he wanted to meet in person.  It just wasn&#8217;t a worthwhile situation.</p>
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		<title>By: John A. Robb</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65385</link>
		<dc:creator>John A. Robb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65385</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lee Odden</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65380</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Odden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65380</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think the amount of education you provide is directly proportional to how much you want the business.&quot;

John, on my most optimistic day I could not agree with that comment. A big part of consulting is education/information. Giving a large amount of your expertise away doesn&#039;t mean you want the business, it means your desperate for it.

The attorney I spoke with was very clear: He wanted expertise for free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think the amount of education you provide is directly proportional to how much you want the business.&#8221;</p>
<p>John, on my most optimistic day I could not agree with that comment. A big part of consulting is education/information. Giving a large amount of your expertise away doesn&#8217;t mean you want the business, it means your desperate for it.</p>
<p>The attorney I spoke with was very clear: He wanted expertise for free.</p>
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		<title>By: John A. Robb</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65378</link>
		<dc:creator>John A. Robb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65378</guid>
		<description>Giving away free services is never encouraged, especially to an organization that knows all about billing for time.  We&#039;ve probably all heard a lawyer say &quot;the only thing I can  bill for is my time&quot;.  

That being said I don&#039;t agree that we should never educate a potential client.  I spent 15 years in business to business sales of goods and services (before going completely online) and I can tell you that not all prospects understand what you are offering.  Sometimes you have to educate them about the differences between you and an alternative.  

I think the amount of education you provide is directly proportional to how much you want the business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giving away free services is never encouraged, especially to an organization that knows all about billing for time.  We&#8217;ve probably all heard a lawyer say &#8220;the only thing I can  bill for is my time&#8221;.  </p>
<p>That being said I don&#8217;t agree that we should never educate a potential client.  I spent 15 years in business to business sales of goods and services (before going completely online) and I can tell you that not all prospects understand what you are offering.  Sometimes you have to educate them about the differences between you and an alternative.  </p>
<p>I think the amount of education you provide is directly proportional to how much you want the business.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65366</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65366</guid>
		<description>This type of stuff makes my blood boil!  I have done a fair amount of consulting and it seems everyone wants my efforts for free.  I just say no!!!!  Never will I give away my skills or information.  

You acted right and your logic is 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This type of stuff makes my blood boil!  I have done a fair amount of consulting and it seems everyone wants my efforts for free.  I just say no!!!!  Never will I give away my skills or information.  </p>
<p>You acted right and your logic is 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Igor M. (BizMord Blog)</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65306</link>
		<dc:creator>Igor M. (BizMord Blog)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-65306</guid>
		<description>This is a funny one Lee. :-)

The reason why this even happens in our industry is because it&#039;s so &quot;new&quot; to others. Non SEO/SEM people think that it&#039;s just like finding that young kid to help out with their PC (&quot;hey do something with this DOS thing and get me running&quot;).

They simply don&#039;t understand that this is a business and it&#039;s meant to make money. Furthermore, they just don&#039;t get that SEO/SEM has it&#039;s place in professional services field just like advertising, legal, financial and PR services.

Lee ... your response was excellent. The more these guys will hear this from others, the faster this industry will grow.

On my blog I don&#039;t even offer consulting and yet I get 1-2 e-mails / calls per week asking for &quot;search/PPC&quot; help. Unfortunately 90% are looking for quick, free, or $50 consultation.

Not worth the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a funny one Lee. <img src='http://www.toprankblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The reason why this even happens in our industry is because it&#8217;s so &#8220;new&#8221; to others. Non SEO/SEM people think that it&#8217;s just like finding that young kid to help out with their PC (&#8220;hey do something with this DOS thing and get me running&#8221;).</p>
<p>They simply don&#8217;t understand that this is a business and it&#8217;s meant to make money. Furthermore, they just don&#8217;t get that SEO/SEM has it&#8217;s place in professional services field just like advertising, legal, financial and PR services.</p>
<p>Lee &#8230; your response was excellent. The more these guys will hear this from others, the faster this industry will grow.</p>
<p>On my blog I don&#8217;t even offer consulting and yet I get 1-2 e-mails / calls per week asking for &#8220;search/PPC&#8221; help. Unfortunately 90% are looking for quick, free, or $50 consultation.</p>
<p>Not worth the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-64811</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 17:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-64811</guid>
		<description>Wow, this one hit me between the eyes.  I would have taken the lunch in a minute.  Here&#039;s why, besides the potential referrals this is get together offered potential reciprication.  
As for the argument that an attorney would not do the same for you I have the opposite opinion. If I called on a top law firm in my city I could get an attorney to come for lunch for a converstion. Free lunch and spreading the firm&#039;s goodwill with the potential for picking up a new client (or two).
But then I read your response to a comment above and I do see your point.  You are swamped with business and the thought of giving away free advice is not on your list currently. We should all be so lucky to have so many daily inquiries.
On the balance however I still side with doing the lunch.  You never know what Fortune 500 company the firm represents and after turning them down as you did you may never hear from them again.
Thought, could you have sent a representative?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, this one hit me between the eyes.  I would have taken the lunch in a minute.  Here&#8217;s why, besides the potential referrals this is get together offered potential reciprication.<br />
As for the argument that an attorney would not do the same for you I have the opposite opinion. If I called on a top law firm in my city I could get an attorney to come for lunch for a converstion. Free lunch and spreading the firm&#8217;s goodwill with the potential for picking up a new client (or two).<br />
But then I read your response to a comment above and I do see your point.  You are swamped with business and the thought of giving away free advice is not on your list currently. We should all be so lucky to have so many daily inquiries.<br />
On the balance however I still side with doing the lunch.  You never know what Fortune 500 company the firm represents and after turning them down as you did you may never hear from them again.<br />
Thought, could you have sent a representative?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Walt</title>
		<link>http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-64705</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.toprankblog.com/2007/01/lawyers-cost-money-but-seo-is-free/#comment-64705</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this story -
i&#039;m going to forward it to this kind of customers -
but most of the time they just ask for a short meeting to get some kind of proposal - and try fishing for information during this meeting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this story -<br />
i&#8217;m going to forward it to this kind of customers -<br />
but most of the time they just ask for a short meeting to get some kind of proposal &#8211; and try fishing for information during this meeting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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